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	<title>Comments on: How To Evangelise Clarion (2), The Walk-Off</title>
	<link>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/</link>
	<description>It's Not Your Daddy's Spreadsheet</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ivan</title>
		<link>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/#comment-185</link>
		<author>Ivan</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/#comment-185</guid>
					<description>great idea, I'd be interested!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great idea, I&#8217;d be interested!</p>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/#comment-188</link>
		<author>Stu</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 07:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/#comment-188</guid>
					<description>Awesome. Will let you know when things get further along in the planning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome. Will let you know when things get further along in the planning.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/#comment-196</link>
		<author>Bruce Johnson</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/#comment-196</guid>
					<description>Alas most programming competitions are won and lost at the "spec" stage. If you do the spec right, then one system is a sure-fire winner.

For example, let's say the spec includes a line 
"must play a sound using DirectX 9".
Clearly that is trivial for some, difficult for others.
If you've done it before then it's easy - if you have to research it it'll eat your time.

Sounds like an absurd example?  What about the backend? SQL or TPS? Immediately you prejudice a bunch of programmers.

Plus it gets worse. What "toolset" do you specify? Does the person need EE or will PE do? (What if the spec says "save report as pdf, and email to customer"). Are programmers allowed to use PDF-Tools? What if they only have PE?

It gets even worse. When "judging" or commenting on the end result what criteria are used? Does the program "look" matter? Does the "usability" matter? Does speed matter? Does it even have to "work"?

The real competition of course exists all the time. Whenever you make a product you are competing with all other programmers, regardless of language, who make a similar product. The "judges" (customers) could care less how long it took, or what language you used. They'll make up their own minds, and vote with their wallets.

That all said, I love the idea, just promise me you'll let me make some suggestions to the spec...

Cheers
Bruce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alas most programming competitions are won and lost at the &#8220;spec&#8221; stage. If you do the spec right, then one system is a sure-fire winner.</p>
<p>For example, let&#8217;s say the spec includes a line<br />
&#8220;must play a sound using DirectX 9&#8243;.<br />
Clearly that is trivial for some, difficult for others.<br />
If you&#8217;ve done it before then it&#8217;s easy - if you have to research it it&#8217;ll eat your time.</p>
<p>Sounds like an absurd example?  What about the backend? SQL or TPS? Immediately you prejudice a bunch of programmers.</p>
<p>Plus it gets worse. What &#8220;toolset&#8221; do you specify? Does the person need EE or will PE do? (What if the spec says &#8220;save report as pdf, and email to customer&#8221;). Are programmers allowed to use PDF-Tools? What if they only have PE?</p>
<p>It gets even worse. When &#8220;judging&#8221; or commenting on the end result what criteria are used? Does the program &#8220;look&#8221; matter? Does the &#8220;usability&#8221; matter? Does speed matter? Does it even have to &#8220;work&#8221;?</p>
<p>The real competition of course exists all the time. Whenever you make a product you are competing with all other programmers, regardless of language, who make a similar product. The &#8220;judges&#8221; (customers) could care less how long it took, or what language you used. They&#8217;ll make up their own minds, and vote with their wallets.</p>
<p>That all said, I love the idea, just promise me you&#8217;ll let me make some suggestions to the spec&#8230;</p>
<p>Cheers<br />
Bruce</p>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/#comment-198</link>
		<author>Stu</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.pimpmyclarion.com/2007/07/26/how-to-evangelise-clarion-2-the-walk-off/#comment-198</guid>
					<description>I'm only listening to the "I love the idea" .. everything else is white noise. Ha ha.

Ahem.

I think for once I'm not diving as deep in. All this post was, was the germinating of an idea. 

Definately, there would be specs. Definately thought would go into them. Definately we would have something about directx .. ha ha. 

Judging would be dependant. If it was PimpMyClarion hosting, then I'd be the judge, executioner and jury. Plus maybe some other well respected folk in Clarion .. :).

If it were elsewhere .. well, I guess more thought would be needed. 

Mostly, I think for the Clarion community to grow and flourish, we need the blind dreams of ME working hand in hand with the pragmatic realism of YOU (not that I'm one-dimension-ing you and others, apologies if it comes across that way).

People follow noise. Now, nice music is better than cacophonies .. so substance behind it would be far better .. but still, there has to be noise. Well, there doesn't have to be .. but I believe for the betterment of Clarion, there does need to be.

Competitions, Blogs, Articles, Emails, Interviews, Conferences .. all these and more are wonderful opportunities for telling people about Clarion. Showing people Clarion.

Finally .. Thankyou for taking the time to comment Bruce. That is, arguably, more important than the subject of this post for the growth of the community. That you have taken the time to put together something with substance. Maybe not "more" important .. but "first" important.

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m only listening to the &#8220;I love the idea&#8221; .. everything else is white noise. Ha ha.</p>
<p>Ahem.</p>
<p>I think for once I&#8217;m not diving as deep in. All this post was, was the germinating of an idea. </p>
<p>Definately, there would be specs. Definately thought would go into them. Definately we would have something about directx .. ha ha. </p>
<p>Judging would be dependant. If it was PimpMyClarion hosting, then I&#8217;d be the judge, executioner and jury. Plus maybe some other well respected folk in Clarion .. :).</p>
<p>If it were elsewhere .. well, I guess more thought would be needed. </p>
<p>Mostly, I think for the Clarion community to grow and flourish, we need the blind dreams of ME working hand in hand with the pragmatic realism of YOU (not that I&#8217;m one-dimension-ing you and others, apologies if it comes across that way).</p>
<p>People follow noise. Now, nice music is better than cacophonies .. so substance behind it would be far better .. but still, there has to be noise. Well, there doesn&#8217;t have to be .. but I believe for the betterment of Clarion, there does need to be.</p>
<p>Competitions, Blogs, Articles, Emails, Interviews, Conferences .. all these and more are wonderful opportunities for telling people about Clarion. Showing people Clarion.</p>
<p>Finally .. Thankyou for taking the time to comment Bruce. That is, arguably, more important than the subject of this post for the growth of the community. That you have taken the time to put together something with substance. Maybe not &#8220;more&#8221; important .. but &#8220;first&#8221; important.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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